Curse

Tyla · Dec 12, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

Is it just me or Paragons have pretty crappy elites?
Crappiest
"Incoming!" nerfed to oblivion
"The Power Is Yours!" bad bad BAD
"It's just a flesh wound." actually its seen use in a nice N/Mo dark aura touch spike i seen once
Cautery Signet has its uses, quite good
Angelic Bond this is actually a very cool elite G
Stunning Strike BHA ranger owns this
Anthem of Fury bad for adrenaline buildup
Cruel Spear this one is gewd for spike assists G
Crippling Anthem i like antikite, although cripshot is better
Soldier's Fury aggressive refrain>this
Anthem of Guidance works well with rangerspike builds G
Song of Purification bad
Focused Anger check out the SY/TNTF build then G
Song of Restoration bad
Defensive Anthem GvG, unstrippable defenses! G
Survivable..

5 of them there are very gewd - bolded my replies and put a "G" next to the ones imo are good

Thom Bangalter · Dec 12, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

song of restoration is pretty common now that lod was nerfed; it's a pretty strong party heal.

Faer · Dec 12, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Cruel Spear is awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Gonna have to disagree with this.
80% dumb builds
10% Ursan
5% Sabway
5% Decent builds.

moar liek 90% Dumb, 8% Sabway, 2% [email protected] tbh.

bungusmaximus · Dec 12, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

I don't get what people like so much about the post-nerf Aggressive Refrain. In PvE and especially when using heroes that skill is a nightmare. Dunkoro blows all his energy on removing cracked armor and heroes stink at e-management to begin with.
I have a hard time making a build that makes good use of both 'stand your ground' and refrain, while 'stand your ground' has much better synergy with soldiers fury.

wazz · Dec 12, 2007, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Well although Ar do is a pain with hero/hench (*sigh* mabye it is the way of anet to say grab a human team and stop frigging H/H everything... not like I'm the type to lissen though, I rather yell against the heros and hench than actually yell at their PUG variant).
It still is one of the hottest skills paragons got.

The power is yours --> looks like a great way to give energy to your teammates in HA/GvG as a necro with Br etc looks suicidal to me, also with the necro you (mine or less) gotta spend the rest of your bar towards the use of it... unlike the power is yours.

stunning strike--> Great skill IMO but to high adraline requirement IMO but still doesn't change the fact it is a nice skill

soldiers fury --> great synergy with other paragons

All anthems (except for defensive)--> great synergy if your group contains alot of physcial damage dealers.

it is just a flesh wound/ cautery signet--> both great ways to remove conditions. Both have there up/down sides.

angelic bond--> ah good old deep HM days. I love the skill.

cruel spear --> nice skill

song of purification--> nice way to remove conditions if your in an physical damage dealer group.

Song of Restoration --> Mallyx we will remember you in our prayers...

defensive anthem--> great skill in a team mainly containing off magic (ab)users

As I said before Incoming is the only skill ,we, paragons got that sucks.
They should just remove it
no way anet can fix it up to a decent lvl.

Racthoh · Dec 12, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I don't get what people like so much about the post-nerf Aggressive Refrain. In PvE and especially when using heroes that skill is a nightmare.

Aggressive Refrain is painful to use with Factions henchmen; for vanquishing I always had to take the ritualist henchmen because the [Healer Henchmen] have Blessed Light with its wonderful 3 second recharge. It's not too bad in Nightfall/EOTN since Mhenlo does all the work anyway, and in Prophecies it's a non-issue as neither monk has condition removal.

Terraban · Dec 12, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazz

no way anet can fix it up to a decent lvl.

Slightly weaker ToF, no condition, same recharge duration and cost?

Or ToF with no condition, but 15 cost.

Not like it loses its current role, since it doesn't have one besides +1 skill hunter.

blue.rellik · Dec 13, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Aggressive Refrain, if anything is better in PvE. It increases the chances that the monsters will attack you and not the squishes and that's only good.

bungusmaximus · Dec 13, 2007, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Aggressive Refrain is painful to use with Factions henchmen; for vanquishing I always had to take the ritualist henchmen because the [Healer Henchmen] have Blessed Light with its wonderful 3 second recharge. It's not too bad in Nightfall/EOTN since Mhenlo does all the work anyway, and in Prophecies it's a non-issue as neither monk has condition removal.

And I'll be damned before I build a team without condi remove at all in it, so for me personally it's still right out.

wazz · Dec 13, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Slightly weaker ToF, no condition, same recharge duration and cost?

Or ToF with no condition, but 15 cost.

Not like it loses its current role, since it doesn't have one besides +1 skill hunter.

tof can be kept on all the time while incoming takes ages to recharge + last a wonderfull 3 seconds.

And an elite is supposed to be better than a normal skill

kullwarrior · Dec 14, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

lol back when NF came out, 4 Incoming paragon at 12 or 16 command can upkeep it I think

Kyp Jade · Dec 14, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

I need to find the thread where i said this so i can quote it, but

in pve, your lovely mesmer hero is good with draw, and doesnt are about energy much due to things like power drain

Terraban · Dec 14, 2007, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazz

tof can be kept on all the time while incoming takes ages to recharge + last a wonderfull 3 seconds.

And an elite is supposed to be better than a normal skill

I meant as a change for Incoming, not the current joke of a skill (notice I said skill, not elite, because this isn't even worthy of normal skill status).

I am pretty sure that a version of ToF with no condition would make it better than ToF. No condition would probably be too strong, so I said to lower the % reduction, or increase the energy cost to compensate.

wazz · Dec 14, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

hmm yes that could work out decent but that would change the entire way the skill works.

GourangaPizza · Dec 14, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Song of Purification is not bad. Look at it this way; your whole party are rid of conditions easily in condtions heavy area and your monks save a slot. A better alternative to Cautery Signet (15 secs recharge) IMO.

Terraban · Dec 14, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazz

hmm yes that could work out decent but that would change the entire way the skill works.

The skill doesn't "work" at all, so that is irrelevant.

wazz · Dec 14, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

*sigh, you kinda asked*

The skill does work... it just doesn't work good.

Brian the Gladiator · Dec 14, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Wow... So much fail... you are sooooo baed!

Paragons are one of the most imbalanced classes in all of guild wars especially when spoken about in GvG.
The more paragons a team has is directly related to how much spiking power the overall build will have.
Another Great thing about paragons is that they have other purposes besides damage dealing that can make them that much better. A paragon can bring interrupts, defensive skills, and enchantment removal. All of these things are vital to a GvG team build and having them on paragons means the team will have that much more pressure to go along with their shutdown capabilities.

Before flaming what I am saying and telling me I am wrong, I want you to ask someone that is an experienced GvG player if paragons are significantly weaker than other classes. I can almost guarantee that they will be incredibly outspoken about how paragons are far superior to other classes.

Ask that same player who IS a weaker class and I can almost guarantee they will tell you the Necromancer is. Unfortunately, there are so many RA and HB scrubs in this forum that the Necromancer's utter failure in GvG is overlooked.

I predict that the only reason why people that visit these forums say that paragons are weak is because they only play RA, TA, HB, or PvE. My response to thses people is:

If you play RA, TA, or HB --> In a 4 man team, paragons are going to be weaker because their shouts are less effective because there are only 4 people for them to be put on. Also, the paragon's shutdown capabilities are somewhat limited to shutting down Aegises, Diversions, Defensive anthems, and other key skills that don't see as much play in the low level, arena style PvP matches.

If you play PvE --> You use mending wammos and think that Assassins are bad because they don't "tank" well... so your opinion simply doesn't matter.

EDIT: People are saying that "Incoming" is a bad skill. You couldn't be more wrong! You obviously don't know how to use it, for the same scrubby reasons above. Incoming is a great spike deterrent. Imagine you are fighting a spike group in a GvG, the Paragon can use Incoming right before the enemy team uses their spiking skills so, when the spike hits it's target, it does significantly less damage, thus saving the targeted player from a quick yet very painful death. The only reason why this skill isn't of use in the current meta is because spikes are no where near prevalent enough to necessitate an elite skill to deter them. If, some day, spiking does because a major factor in GvG, you may see more balanced groups bringing this elite.

GG

GloryFox · Dec 14, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

If you play PvE --> You use mending wammos and think that Assassins are bad because they don't "tank" well... so your oppinion simply doesn't matter.

and people in PvP wonder why there is so much hate from the PvE crowd.

wazz · Dec 14, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

@ brian the gladiator:
eh you do realise we are discussing the usage of paragons elites (and how badly they suck/rock) ?

not the role of paragons in pvp nor ...gvg

And btw necros quite own in pve 3 n/rts heros = ownage
and the necro is also the only proffession that can make paragons stop spamming shouts ---> vocal minority *shivers* to cruel...

Also some people still don't seem to get the point of paragons... paragons own in groups and that is also the only way they can own... a paragon in a one on one is pretty death (well his biggest asset: namely his shouts will kill his energy).

Paragons aren't overpowered, some people just don't seem to understand em enough to efficiently counter em.

BTW: the paragon proffesion has on it's own no way to remove hexes *hint hint*